tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268514535295850133.post2878821340581969907..comments2023-09-21T03:28:16.289-07:00Comments on CAMBODIA AS IT IS: The Eternal Khmer-Vietnamese and Khmer-Thai AnimosityKJEhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04869408230216868495noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268514535295850133.post-6454553483201335952008-02-17T07:35:00.000-08:002008-02-17T07:35:00.000-08:00Ksaron,Of course, this is not the same scenario. V...Ksaron,<BR/>Of course, this is not the same scenario. Vietnamese settlers began to settle in Kampuchea Krom 300 - 400 years ago. The first Vietnamese administration there was installed about 300 years ago. Eventually the Khmer became a minority. This is a process that happened over time again and again in history. As recent as at the end of WWII this was happening to formerly German territories lost to Poland, the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia. They won't ever be German again. The world is a different place now, with all the complexities of the global economy. Cambodia is a sovereign country. Annexation by the Vietnamese is not possible and won't be tolerated by ASEAN, the UN, and the U. S. Vietnam would not dare do it because it would have too much lose. And what would it gain? An impoverished country that is worse off than Vietnam itself. <BR/><BR/>Nobody tells you to keep your mouth shut. But we are talking about the here and now, while you are talking about the then and there. <BR/><BR/>The only thing people like you should do is reflect a little more on the facts rather than just be moved by irrational feelings.KJEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04869408230216868495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268514535295850133.post-51783456376737087862008-02-16T19:08:00.000-08:002008-02-16T19:08:00.000-08:00kje,What happen to Khmer Krom? If it happen to Kh...kje,<BR/><BR/>What happen to Khmer Krom? If it happen to Khmer Krom why do you think that it wouldn't happen to srok Khmer? Aren't the two share the same scenario? <BR/><BR/>Yes, I am a KK sympathizer because KK share the same name as I, Khmer. Maybe, KK will not be an independent country or return to Khmer but I can not keep my mouth shut and watch people like you have all the fun by letting bygone be bygone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268514535295850133.post-35658778828454976052008-02-16T08:40:00.000-08:002008-02-16T08:40:00.000-08:00KSaronThank you for your comment. What I said abou...KSaron<BR/>Thank you for your comment. What I said about the level of education of the general population in Cambodia is true. If you went to live in Cambodia you would know this. <BR/><BR/>You seem to be a sympathizer with the Khmer Krom Movement. Don't misunderstand me. I am only painting a realistic picture. According to international law KK is Vietnamese and no international jurist, nor politician, nor the UN see any merit in that movement's claim for a return to Cambodia. Even autonomy is out of the question as the KK are a minority in that region now. As deplorable as the repression of the KK in Vietnam is, there is no turning back the clock. <BR/><BR/>'People who always look back will only see their shadow.'KJEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04869408230216868495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268514535295850133.post-30325523617052500872008-02-16T08:17:00.000-08:002008-02-16T08:17:00.000-08:00KJE,You brought up some good points but you are co...KJE,<BR/><BR/>You brought up some good points but you are contradicting yourself many times. You said, “Current Khmer society on the whole is rather uneducated, and that includes the upper echelons of the country’s leadership…………This tends to make people to think in very simple terms and to see things in black and white. They are not able to make educated and informed assessments and judgments of given situations. They are very susceptible and responsive to blaming outsiders for their misfortune.” <BR/><BR/>But you ended your blog with educated abroad Khmer are too far removed..etc. It is the educated Khmer abroad that is trying to save Cambodia from Vietnam and people like you. People like you are trying very hard to brainwash all of us but luckily there are some that refused to be so.<BR/><BR/>Come on. You even capture a perfect example as to why Khmer should lay down our guard with this statement.<BR/><BR/>“It was again a Khmer king who allowed Vietnamese refugees fleeing from a war to settle in this region in the early 17th century.”<BR/><BR/>The king allowed Vietnamese to take refuge in Khmer Krom land and Hun Sen allowing Vietnamese to take refuge in Cambodia, what is the different in the two? What happen to srok KK and what will happen to srok Khmer?<BR/><BR/>“…. Kampuchea Krom has been Vietnamese ever since….”<BR/><BR/>“…..But their contention that Vietnam will one day occupy Cambodia again is outright ludicrous……..”<BR/><BR/>How can the latter statement be ludicrous when we all know the result of srok KK?<BR/><BR/>KJE, we Khmer don’t hate the Vietnamese, we fear the Vietnamese.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268514535295850133.post-67979052635204293312008-01-16T09:14:00.000-08:002008-01-16T09:14:00.000-08:009:54It is deplorable that you see fit to revile me...9:54<BR/>It is deplorable that you see fit to revile me. This is my blog and I can voice any opinion I have on any subject, whether right or wrong. You seem to miss the point of what is expressed in the blog.<BR/><BR/>Crazyglue<BR/>I hope your nick is only symbolic. Whether you nix or not, for the time being I am sticking to my opinion.KJEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04869408230216868495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268514535295850133.post-70717908588685692942008-01-16T09:12:00.000-08:002008-01-16T09:12:00.000-08:006:09One needs to see this blog for what it is - a ...6:09<BR/>One needs to see this blog for what it is - a blog or an op-ed, not a dissertation. These are more personal reflections than a scientific probe. So it has to be seen in that context. Thank you for pointing out apparent flaws, e. g. wrong dates, etc. I believe a combination of both historical, e. g. territorial issues, and economic factors have lead to this resentment among Khmer towards their neighbors, which by way of generalization is extended to the whole people instead of being limited to the respective governments, and which, unfortunately, is used by the opposition parties to stir up those resentments even more. I found that Khmer in Cambodia are much less belligerent, though, than overseas Khmer. I do not claim to be an insider but to have at least some insight from having lived there, done business there, having a Khmer family, friends (both pro-Hun Sen and anti-Hun Sen), and, therefore, I believe I do have an understanding about Khmer people. I am also rather familiar with Khmer history, but certainly no historian. The question of Kampuchea Krom is a thorny one. History books in Vietnam certainly paint a different picture. They claim to have settled people there for 4 and having been in the majority for 3 centuries, respectively. Independent sources usually concur. If I recall correctly David Chandler does too. Being European, I know a little about these things. We have many more of those examples than SE Asia. Just look at the history of Russia, Germany, France, and Poland. All in all, thank you very much for your well-meaning comment and good luck with your efforts. This is the direction all Khmer should go, regardless of their social status.KJEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04869408230216868495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268514535295850133.post-88830144608478342942008-01-15T18:09:00.000-08:002008-01-15T18:09:00.000-08:00I guess I'm more receptive to your article and ide...I guess I'm more receptive to your article and ideas than the previous comment-maker as I'm one of the first few Cambodians specializing in the area of peacebuilding and peacemaking and committed to hopefully able to promote inter-ethnic dialogs between Khmers and their ever-so 'traditional enemies' (neighbors) in the future.<BR/>On the whole I find your article interesting but rather typical of an outsider (foreigner despite even having lived in Cambodia for some time; but I'm not sure if this is your case). To a certain extent it is insightful and reflective. Judging from my own experience of hate and trying not to hate, I agree that ambivalence is a good word to describe a good number of younger Khmers. I'm concerned, however, that, for one thing, there are still many flaws in your article, both factually and analytically, and it is too narrowly focused on proximate causes of the animosity. Although I don't have time to verify the information (which even cites wikipedia, to say the least), I can certainly tell you that liberation day is on Jan 7 and not Jan 9, and that Cambodia did protest the granting of Kampuchea Krom to Vietnam (although I'm not sure if you only referred to the former King, in which case, such claim would still be an overstatement of a "passiveness"). Speaking of history, your article is too narrowly focused on very recent history or proximate causes and focused too little on more underlying causes as a result of centuries-long conflicts. Certainly, one can put the blame of the riots on the Thai embassy in 2003 to false-media and media-illiteracy amongst the population, but such claims greatly underestimate the importance of underlying causes to a conflict. On the issue of Kampuchea Krom, I agree that certain parts may perhaps have been settled by the Vietnamese fairly early on, but a majority of the area has remained Khmer until fairly recently, and certainly not only till 4 centuries ago.<BR/>As an insider and somehow intellectual, I cannot claim that my view are representative of the larger population and accurately reflective of the underlying causes of this ever-growing problem in Cambodia, but your article certainly needs a little more ‘insiders’ insight to the problems and some verification. As a peacemaker, however, I thank you for discussing the topic. But understanding the real causes is crucial to effectively finding the solution.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268514535295850133.post-41832272661039073592008-01-15T16:36:00.000-08:002008-01-15T16:36:00.000-08:00I am nixing your assertion because you don't have ...I am nixing your assertion because you don't have sufficient political and historical knowledges on Khmer/Cambodia to further deserve a PR for your blog. As a Khmer-American, I consequently ask you to learn more about Khmer and Khmer's history. Until then, please refrain yourself from using such words as "hate" or anything to that effect. You do not know the meaning of it!<BR/><BR/>Very truly yours,<BR/>Crazygluecrazygluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08998008357675962063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268514535295850133.post-48732228574827314942008-01-15T08:59:00.000-08:002008-01-15T08:59:00.000-08:002:44I am familiar with David Chandler's book. This...2:44<BR/>I am familiar with David Chandler's book. This was an attempt of looking into the causes of that animosity and trying to understand it. I was not trying to write a treatise on Khmer history but referred to undisputed historical facts. Of course, you want Cambodia's sovereignty respected, but politics being politics there are always at least two parties sitting at the negotiating table. If Vietnam gains from the ineptitude of the Cambodian government you cannot blame the Vietnamese. Again, this is a look from the outside, though I have been on the inside a long time. The tragedy of Khmer history is undisputed. History written by Thais or Vietnam on Cambodia each reads differently but blaming one another for defeats or loss of territory retroactively is counterproductive. <BR/><BR/>If you want to see hatred spewed forth by overseas Khmer go visit KI-Media.KJEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04869408230216868495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268514535295850133.post-32594287116526236822008-01-15T02:44:00.000-08:002008-01-15T02:44:00.000-08:00I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly ...I am sorry but I have to disagree whole heartedly about everything you have said about oversea Khmers and the hatred towards their neighbors. Please don't just bring up facts and little snippets you have read on the internet (especially wikipedia) Khmer history is sadly plague with war against her neighbors, and I can see how you have tried to distinguished where this animosity is stemming from, but it is more than just hatred. Cambodia like all other nations want sovereignty that is respected. I suggest reading the works of David Chandler, A History of Cambodia and The Tragedy of Cambodian History: Politics, War, and Revolution. And also Stephen J. Morris Why Vietnam Invaded Cambodia. We don't blame the Vietnamese or Thai for their injustices, we just need a better government to move the country forward.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com